If anyone of you care to have the Full details... this is the FairTax ,once championed by Neal Boortz and Rep Linder.
It won't ever be passed,shamefully, because within the legislation is the ironclad first step of reminding the 16th Amendment to our Constitution. I can tell you
...as this would be the biggest shift of power from the Govt to the Consumer...they won't ever let that happen.
It's been years since I read thev2 books I bought on it...however:
This is a tax on new items,and services- with a prebate on taxes that would be paid on goods for the first $----? ( below the designated poverty level) for every tax payer. That will be The Only job of the IRS going fwd for household: send them their pre-bates at the beginning of the year.
Buy a new house Pay 23% sales tax. Buy a used home? Pay nothing extra.
If your thrifty, you'll save money. Illegals and tourists will pay 23% on their new goods n services-.adding benefits to the economy-without ever getting $ that citizens get .
The impact of abolishing the IRS and the federal tax code is much further reaching than it appears on the surface.
When one considers how many law makers are corrupted by taking money from lobbyists to author spending bills and laws that permit the wealthy to suck the teat of government, the legions of lawyers and accountant types to support the attempted avoidance and or compliance with a hopelessly impossible and corrupt tax code, it becomes obvious why the establishment has a literal stroke when reforms are merely mentioned in earnest.
The loss of control over the levers of power and the amount of money that would be returned to the economy for the people to use, not the government, is simply too much for the ruling class to even consider.
A tax on goods and services, to finance the legitimate functions of government as defined in the enumerated powers of the Constitution, is the only money the fed should be collecting. Anything beyond those clearly defined functions is unconstitutional and should be terminated without further consideration or debate.
It is also has the least chance of success. But, one can dream. A return to a federal government that actually follows the constitution. I think it happened for a few years. Until the founders died off.
Sort of like the greatest generation, those that were children during the depression and then survived WWII. As they have died off, the bullshit level level in the US has taken off on an exponential rise.
I'll do it in my next Thing, I just wanted to test it out as I put this up. It's a super busy day so this was a quick one; I felt the topic was super important as this seems to be passing unnoticed and is close to my heart.
But I'm very grateful for the enthusiastic nudges by some Gutterballs to be better business-minded.
It is only a good deal if it is tied to eliminating the income tax.
I moved to libertaria (in the heart of Woke Crazy Murica. Who knew?) to be w/in driving distance of fam when they lock us down again.
I pay for fire, library and waste separately as indy tax districts. If I do not pay ... pssht. Too bad, for you. Police is catch as catch can, which is dead scary if your neighbors do not like you.
Old America. Lotta hard core Christians, pagans and weirdos.
Reminds me of the time we moved into a house in an older (formerly) suburban neighborhood of a nearby town. Not long after moving in, I looked out my window one morning to see a bare possum skull sitting on top of a deck post, pointed as if looking in to my living room window.
I began to wonder if we'd done something to offend one of our new neighbors, as it was a bit unusual.
I let it sit there for a few days, to see if anyone would move it. It just sat there -- dead possum skull lookin in the window. Well, at least if someone was actively trying to screw with us, they were low commitment.
Once I decided to dispose of the ghoulish thing, I noticed there was another small bone on the ground nearby.
Huh.
Looking up into a nearby pine tree, I saw the skeletal remains of most of a possum, wedged in the crook of of branch at the trunk. On, all settled, mystery solved .
Not many days later, I noticed a hawk looking in through my living room window, perched on the same post which had previously been the resting place of the possum skull.
Ok. Odd. So then I wondered -- was the hawk screwing with my head, or was I just screwing with my own head?
Once the weather is slightly different from some cultures' descriptions of Hell I will post more pictures of poop, but at the moment nothing meets my artistic standards.
Beg to differ ma'am. Lack of a functioning brain has had virtually no impact on the earnings, past, present, or future, of most "congress critters". (Apologies to Mark Twain)
One need only look at the absolute consternation when Dizzy Lizzy attempted to roll back the Uk's tax agenda to something along the lines of 2018, tanking various markets, creating a huge panic and thus was rewarded with (thoroughly deserved, for unrelated reasons) political assassination.
Though, I've also heard it she was the victim of essentially a coup by the WEF globalists, which I'm happy to accept on face value because that's just the kind of shit they do.
TBH this bill sounds like the GOP blowing smoke up the arse of their low-taxation phoney base as it's so obviously doomed to fail.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
"But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime."
"Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on, and so on.”
What Bastiat and all the others like him never understood was two things: why taxes exist (his explanation is pre-teen level of stupis; pure semantics and nothing else) and what they initially was for.
One of the earliest forms of taxation was to provide a soldier for the local chieftain in times of war. The cultures (races to americans) best at organising this won over more barbaric ones, no matter other factors. That ability for organisation and order feeds itself improving all of society, as lack of order means no technological development and little to no ability to produce above survival level.
And safeguarding order means spending resourcesto that effect: military and police.
Really, quoting the likes of Bastiat et al damages any and all constructive arguments towards getting taxes as low as possible and necessary, simply due to their arguments being "verklighetsfrämmande" (strangers to reality; i.e. not grounded in empirical historical fact but instead revealing a perception founded on a protected very narrow slivver of the whole).
The marxists acted much the same during the 1960s and 1970s (their most radical era), as does libertarians today: spouting qoutes not to illustrate points or as a basis for discussion but instead using the quotes as if those in themselves proved anything, coming across as insular, dogmatic and "verklighetsfrämmande". Saying "the workers must control the means of production" does not convince a self-employed house-painter that the ideais sound.
Nor does quoting "taxation is theft" in its endless permutations convince anyone of anything except in two cases: the already convinced feels reinforced in their faith, and everyone else disregards the entire "lower taxes has benefits" as wrong or impossible; the cause itself is damaged thusly.
I hope you didn't read this as a defence for today's punitive taxes - it's not.
A new word (for me): verklighetsfrämmande I like it, but I can't pronounce it :) Maybe we could just abbreviate it to "verklight", here in the west... At any rate I agree that there's a whole shitload of people these days who are "strangers to reality". Maybe they need some "verklight" shined upon their confused brains :)
Disagree. Not a question of "accuracy". Some (many?) of Bastiat's fundamental assumptions were unrealistic. Therefore making it entirely reasonable to question his logic. (It has been decades, but I remember many long nights arguing Bastiat into the wee small hours).
Governmen will create a 30% VAT --- and not cut any other taxes.
It isn't socialism though, IMO. It's more like oligarchic kleptocracy. Government regulators steal the income of productive people, keep a large chunk of it, and distribute the rest to their wealthy Leftist cronies.
Right on, Rightful! Look around the world. In every jurisdiction where a VAT has been imposed it has been in addition to, or sometimes added on, to other taxes. So you have many places, like Canada for instance, where the VAT is calculated on the taxed value of transactions. Tax on tax.
In the UK they pay tax on fuel (something absurd like 75% of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is tax) then pay VAT on the sum total. Tax on top of tax, presumably because people can't function without fuel.
It shows the same as above but broken apat to show per type of taxation. Light blue is direct tax on labour. Punk is indirect tax on labour. Greyer blue is tax on capital. Yellow is VAT (called moms). Green is all other taxes summed.
I wonder what it looks like for the US? Wouldn't your state-taxes screw this up if you try to look at it on the federal/national level?
Maybe for the US a system where you only pay to state would work better? And the states then pass some of it on for national issues like defence? Almost like a feodal system.
GM: 1) It was not a squirrel. 2) I spend a fair amount, (but try not to waste any) and would be fine with a sales tax. The worst of all worlds would be to have both an income and a VAT as most European countries do. I actually prefer the flat tax over all of them -- it is the gaming of the income tax that makes it noxious. But a VAT is fine. If you can afford to buy a $5M jet, you can afford the extra $1M in taxes. Otherwise, don't buy it and put your carbon footprint money where your mouth is...
GM, I know squirrels. Squirrels are friends of mine. This is no squirrel. (You will date yourself if this makes sense to you. Of course, if no one else will date you, dating yourself is your only choice.)
Are you suggesting I may have inadvertently failed to recognize the inherent squirrel-hood of a rabid possum? My abject apologies to squirrels and rabid possums everywhere.
Flat Tax makes sense and I am a huge fan. I actually go over it in an article I'm working on :) The prebates keep the burden on the poor low, all the black marketers have to chip in, and of course the best part is the elimination of the income tax. (consumption taxes are far superior)
The shrieking is so people don't run the numbers like you did and realize how badly you're getting screwed.
I've argued with my communist and socialist and libertarian friends here these past 20+ years that a) tax households, not individuals and b) make the first 300 000:- (aprox. $30 000) earned no matter how it was earned long as it was by legal means tax exempt for everyone -
would benefit low-income households tremendously while not really being that great a cost, since in the opposite scale, welfare-costs in all its forms would drop more.
Win-win-win. No lose (except politicians' power...).
And communists and libertarians both say no on grounds of principle. The commies because "lower taxes" is a red flag (ha!) to them. The libertarians because it's not total abolishment of tax.
You ever met people like that, that rather oppose something because it's not immediately perfect and they therefore refuse to consider it at all?
ANY initiative, anything at all, that reduces, or has the potential to reduce, the power of the political or bureaucratic elite will NEVER be implemented.
Those who "oppose something because it's not immediately perfect", are usually opposing it because it was: A. not their idea, or B. they fear it might actually work, and in some way threaten their power.
Deciding how to finance a massively bloated federal government with taxes of any sort ignores the reality that the government is massively bloated and needs to go on not just a diet but have liposuction and then have the skin tightened. But as we know from obese people, even these things don't help take off the weight long term.
It is time to perform gastric bypass on the federal government. Cut out everything that isn't specifically Constitutionally mandated, all the alphabet agencies that are corrupted, that would be all of them in my view and keep the current tax system in place to pay off the debt which would take about 15 years if we act now and then end the tax system altogether and replace it with the only tax system mentioned, tariffs. Put those in place and the US would become fully employed again and foreign governments would lose their ability to buy politicians.
The problem with gastric bypasses is after awhile they stop working. Many people gain back most, or all of the weight, some even more weight. I'm sure it wouldn't take the government much time, in the scheme of things, to be right back where it is right now, or worse. 😱 It would help out some of the older folks, as they might die off before it got back to this point.
One thing about a VAT is that if it is included in the price, it is very easy to implement and raise. If NOT included in the price, it tends to make the customers too angry when it exceeds 10% or so.
Canada vs. New Zealand is a good example. In the former it is not included in the price, while in the latter it is. Both started out at 7% and 10%, respectively, at around the same time. But the former cut it over time to 5% under public pressure, while the latter raised it over time to 15% while the people didn't seem to care enough to complain.
I don’t buy shit. I can’t after Turdeau has taken 1/3 of my paycheque so I’m frugal too. Now I’m freaking out about interest rates and will I be able to keep my shitty house that I actually would like to give my kids some day. Now I’m not so sure anymore.
So this is really boring but since you're talking about taxes, I have to throw in the way my community caret system does it (once we kick out the banks). The commonwealth issues all mortgages priced in carets, and distributes targeted dividends to all residents for locally produced food, wellcare, education and home improvements. Once other people earn the carets by doing nice things for each other, they can spend them how they like. If spent on local goods, housing or services, there's no income tax or sales tax, only soc sec, which is really a pension plan. If cashed out for dollars to buy foreign stuff, there's a 50% tax, protecting local producers. There's also a 2:1 exchange rate of dollars to carets so that local workers pay half what hedge funds or invading Californians would to buy or rent a house. So people can work where they live and live where they work. End of pitch.
You may have just squared the proverbial circle in breaking Gresham's Law (namely, "bad" money drives out "good", where "bad" = cheaper, dollars in this case).
Haha. Well since you're egging me on, let's look at the logic. The rule of thumb for rents or mortgages is that you have to show 3X that in income. So they will always be 33% of what anyone who wants the house makes. The lower the income, the higher the percentage. So that's a tax, a regressive tax, that goes to the richest people on the planet in exchange for money they've created out of nothing. They transfer it to their other hand as venture capitalists and get you to work for them for 30 yrs+++. Why not use that money instead of taxes to help each other, teach each other, heal each other, feed each other? Then we could defund the military and the oligarchs but keep all the good things we wish our taxes were doing.
If anyone of you care to have the Full details... this is the FairTax ,once championed by Neal Boortz and Rep Linder.
It won't ever be passed,shamefully, because within the legislation is the ironclad first step of reminding the 16th Amendment to our Constitution. I can tell you
...as this would be the biggest shift of power from the Govt to the Consumer...they won't ever let that happen.
It's been years since I read thev2 books I bought on it...however:
This is a tax on new items,and services- with a prebate on taxes that would be paid on goods for the first $----? ( below the designated poverty level) for every tax payer. That will be The Only job of the IRS going fwd for household: send them their pre-bates at the beginning of the year.
Buy a new house Pay 23% sales tax. Buy a used home? Pay nothing extra.
If your thrifty, you'll save money. Illegals and tourists will pay 23% on their new goods n services-.adding benefits to the economy-without ever getting $ that citizens get .
https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/933172980001#sp=show-clips
A fast 5 minutes,if you don't want to buy either book ( Answering the Critics I think is the best book)
The advantage of the VAT is that it would place the onus on mindless consumer cows, while the rest of us are busy building parallel economies.
Also would force markets to adjust to price ceilings for consumer demand, in many cases.
The impact of abolishing the IRS and the federal tax code is much further reaching than it appears on the surface.
When one considers how many law makers are corrupted by taking money from lobbyists to author spending bills and laws that permit the wealthy to suck the teat of government, the legions of lawyers and accountant types to support the attempted avoidance and or compliance with a hopelessly impossible and corrupt tax code, it becomes obvious why the establishment has a literal stroke when reforms are merely mentioned in earnest.
The loss of control over the levers of power and the amount of money that would be returned to the economy for the people to use, not the government, is simply too much for the ruling class to even consider.
A tax on goods and services, to finance the legitimate functions of government as defined in the enumerated powers of the Constitution, is the only money the fed should be collecting. Anything beyond those clearly defined functions is unconstitutional and should be terminated without further consideration or debate.
Your last paragraph is THE point which is so often missed.
It is also has the least chance of success. But, one can dream. A return to a federal government that actually follows the constitution. I think it happened for a few years. Until the founders died off.
Sort of like the greatest generation, those that were children during the depression and then survived WWII. As they have died off, the bullshit level level in the US has taken off on an exponential rise.
I don't think it's impossible.
It basically represents the entire battle ahead of us.
In case you missed it GM added Kofi to this stack. Now go buy her a coffee! GM, you could mention this to the rest of the world.
I'll do it in my next Thing, I just wanted to test it out as I put this up. It's a super busy day so this was a quick one; I felt the topic was super important as this seems to be passing unnoticed and is close to my heart.
But I'm very grateful for the enthusiastic nudges by some Gutterballs to be better business-minded.
It is only a good deal if it is tied to eliminating the income tax.
I moved to libertaria (in the heart of Woke Crazy Murica. Who knew?) to be w/in driving distance of fam when they lock us down again.
I pay for fire, library and waste separately as indy tax districts. If I do not pay ... pssht. Too bad, for you. Police is catch as catch can, which is dead scary if your neighbors do not like you.
Old America. Lotta hard core Christians, pagans and weirdos.
Nice. But not easy.
>> It is only a good deal if it is tied to eliminating the income tax.
That's the entirety of the bill. Eliminating the income tax is EVERYTHING.
>> I pay for fire, library and waste separately as indy tax districts
Same. And I love it.
Agreed. EVERYTHING.
Cute squirrel.
Reminds me of the time we moved into a house in an older (formerly) suburban neighborhood of a nearby town. Not long after moving in, I looked out my window one morning to see a bare possum skull sitting on top of a deck post, pointed as if looking in to my living room window.
I began to wonder if we'd done something to offend one of our new neighbors, as it was a bit unusual.
I let it sit there for a few days, to see if anyone would move it. It just sat there -- dead possum skull lookin in the window. Well, at least if someone was actively trying to screw with us, they were low commitment.
Once I decided to dispose of the ghoulish thing, I noticed there was another small bone on the ground nearby.
Huh.
Looking up into a nearby pine tree, I saw the skeletal remains of most of a possum, wedged in the crook of of branch at the trunk. On, all settled, mystery solved .
Not many days later, I noticed a hawk looking in through my living room window, perched on the same post which had previously been the resting place of the possum skull.
Ok. Odd. So then I wondered -- was the hawk screwing with my head, or was I just screwing with my own head?
I still haven't figured it out.
Did you owe money to the Bird Mob?
It's possible. I've never been very good at math.
You'd think birds wouldn't be either.
Yes, but raptors seem to be the exception.
Yeah. This is the stuff I post for.
(Narrator: “he paid for the pumpkin head boar, because he’s shallow, but loves to be an in guy”)
Once the weather is slightly different from some cultures' descriptions of Hell I will post more pictures of poop, but at the moment nothing meets my artistic standards.
Hehe, you said you want to be in a guy.
Don’t blame me
I was raised a fundamentalist church...
I am not in charge of my perceptions.
Don't let gods steal your brain.
Always get at least market value. And dividends, because future earnings will be hard without a brain.
Beg to differ ma'am. Lack of a functioning brain has had virtually no impact on the earnings, past, present, or future, of most "congress critters". (Apologies to Mark Twain)
Yeah, but you're not one of them, or you wouldn't be here. You have to work for it, I'm afraid.
One need only look at the absolute consternation when Dizzy Lizzy attempted to roll back the Uk's tax agenda to something along the lines of 2018, tanking various markets, creating a huge panic and thus was rewarded with (thoroughly deserved, for unrelated reasons) political assassination.
Though, I've also heard it she was the victim of essentially a coup by the WEF globalists, which I'm happy to accept on face value because that's just the kind of shit they do.
TBH this bill sounds like the GOP blowing smoke up the arse of their low-taxation phoney base as it's so obviously doomed to fail.
But I don't hear you explaining why it's a BAD idea.
Taxation is Legalized Theft!
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
"But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime."
"Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on, and so on.”
― Frédéric Bastiat
What Bastiat and all the others like him never understood was two things: why taxes exist (his explanation is pre-teen level of stupis; pure semantics and nothing else) and what they initially was for.
One of the earliest forms of taxation was to provide a soldier for the local chieftain in times of war. The cultures (races to americans) best at organising this won over more barbaric ones, no matter other factors. That ability for organisation and order feeds itself improving all of society, as lack of order means no technological development and little to no ability to produce above survival level.
And safeguarding order means spending resourcesto that effect: military and police.
Really, quoting the likes of Bastiat et al damages any and all constructive arguments towards getting taxes as low as possible and necessary, simply due to their arguments being "verklighetsfrämmande" (strangers to reality; i.e. not grounded in empirical historical fact but instead revealing a perception founded on a protected very narrow slivver of the whole).
The marxists acted much the same during the 1960s and 1970s (their most radical era), as does libertarians today: spouting qoutes not to illustrate points or as a basis for discussion but instead using the quotes as if those in themselves proved anything, coming across as insular, dogmatic and "verklighetsfrämmande". Saying "the workers must control the means of production" does not convince a self-employed house-painter that the ideais sound.
Nor does quoting "taxation is theft" in its endless permutations convince anyone of anything except in two cases: the already convinced feels reinforced in their faith, and everyone else disregards the entire "lower taxes has benefits" as wrong or impossible; the cause itself is damaged thusly.
I hope you didn't read this as a defence for today's punitive taxes - it's not.
A new word (for me): verklighetsfrämmande I like it, but I can't pronounce it :) Maybe we could just abbreviate it to "verklight", here in the west... At any rate I agree that there's a whole shitload of people these days who are "strangers to reality". Maybe they need some "verklight" shined upon their confused brains :)
Your interpretation of Frédéric Bastiat and his views as outlined in "The Law" is lacking in accuracy.
No, it is lacking in agreement with his logic, the structure of his argument and the validity of same.
Disagree. Not a question of "accuracy". Some (many?) of Bastiat's fundamental assumptions were unrealistic. Therefore making it entirely reasonable to question his logic. (It has been decades, but I remember many long nights arguing Bastiat into the wee small hours).
Governmen will create a 30% VAT --- and not cut any other taxes.
It isn't socialism though, IMO. It's more like oligarchic kleptocracy. Government regulators steal the income of productive people, keep a large chunk of it, and distribute the rest to their wealthy Leftist cronies.
Right on, Rightful! Look around the world. In every jurisdiction where a VAT has been imposed it has been in addition to, or sometimes added on, to other taxes. So you have many places, like Canada for instance, where the VAT is calculated on the taxed value of transactions. Tax on tax.
In the UK they pay tax on fuel (something absurd like 75% of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is tax) then pay VAT on the sum total. Tax on top of tax, presumably because people can't function without fuel.
For added fun, look at tax pressure as part of GDP. For Sweden presently, it's 42.7%. And it used to be higher.
Page is in swedish but charts and graphs speak their own language:
[https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Skattetryck/Skattetrycket-historiskt/]
Scroll down a little and you'll see a graph showing tax pressure as part of GDP from 1900 to 2021.
Then, look at this graph.
[https://www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Skatter/Skattetryck/Skattetrycket-per-typ-av-skatt/]
It shows the same as above but broken apat to show per type of taxation. Light blue is direct tax on labour. Punk is indirect tax on labour. Greyer blue is tax on capital. Yellow is VAT (called moms). Green is all other taxes summed.
I wonder what it looks like for the US? Wouldn't your state-taxes screw this up if you try to look at it on the federal/national level?
Maybe for the US a system where you only pay to state would work better? And the states then pass some of it on for national issues like defence? Almost like a feodal system.
I found an online translator that seems to work well, [deepL.com], so I can read the articles as well as look at the pictures!
Unfortunately, I have not yet found comparable simplified graphic taxation overviews for the US, UK, or Canada - yet.
They call it the GST, of course, but it is the same thing as a VAT.
And you know they will!
Love your logo: "One agenda: liberty and justice for all."
Amen.
Thanks :)
GM: 1) It was not a squirrel. 2) I spend a fair amount, (but try not to waste any) and would be fine with a sales tax. The worst of all worlds would be to have both an income and a VAT as most European countries do. I actually prefer the flat tax over all of them -- it is the gaming of the income tax that makes it noxious. But a VAT is fine. If you can afford to buy a $5M jet, you can afford the extra $1M in taxes. Otherwise, don't buy it and put your carbon footprint money where your mouth is...
1) prove it.
2) This is entirely the point, because it IS an either-or, and is being consistently misrepresented as a both.
GM, I know squirrels. Squirrels are friends of mine. This is no squirrel. (You will date yourself if this makes sense to you. Of course, if no one else will date you, dating yourself is your only choice.)
I'm flattered if you think I'm too young to know this.
Did someone want a date?
Roller skating or bust.
Done. I hope you like laughing at my expense.
It identifies as a squirrel.
Did you just specieside it?
Are you suggesting I may have inadvertently failed to recognize the inherent squirrel-hood of a rabid possum? My abject apologies to squirrels and rabid possums everywhere.
It is a squirrel - if our lords and masters say it is. Eat your crickets and move on. Nothing to see here.
Flat Tax makes sense and I am a huge fan. I actually go over it in an article I'm working on :) The prebates keep the burden on the poor low, all the black marketers have to chip in, and of course the best part is the elimination of the income tax. (consumption taxes are far superior)
The shrieking is so people don't run the numbers like you did and realize how badly you're getting screwed.
I've argued with my communist and socialist and libertarian friends here these past 20+ years that a) tax households, not individuals and b) make the first 300 000:- (aprox. $30 000) earned no matter how it was earned long as it was by legal means tax exempt for everyone -
would benefit low-income households tremendously while not really being that great a cost, since in the opposite scale, welfare-costs in all its forms would drop more.
Win-win-win. No lose (except politicians' power...).
And communists and libertarians both say no on grounds of principle. The commies because "lower taxes" is a red flag (ha!) to them. The libertarians because it's not total abolishment of tax.
You ever met people like that, that rather oppose something because it's not immediately perfect and they therefore refuse to consider it at all?
ANY initiative, anything at all, that reduces, or has the potential to reduce, the power of the political or bureaucratic elite will NEVER be implemented.
Those who "oppose something because it's not immediately perfect", are usually opposing it because it was: A. not their idea, or B. they fear it might actually work, and in some way threaten their power.
🙌 🎯
"You ever met people like that" ... I think that falls into the category of "Cut off nose to spite face"...
Yep. Frustrating to say the least.
Deciding how to finance a massively bloated federal government with taxes of any sort ignores the reality that the government is massively bloated and needs to go on not just a diet but have liposuction and then have the skin tightened. But as we know from obese people, even these things don't help take off the weight long term.
It is time to perform gastric bypass on the federal government. Cut out everything that isn't specifically Constitutionally mandated, all the alphabet agencies that are corrupted, that would be all of them in my view and keep the current tax system in place to pay off the debt which would take about 15 years if we act now and then end the tax system altogether and replace it with the only tax system mentioned, tariffs. Put those in place and the US would become fully employed again and foreign governments would lose their ability to buy politicians.
The problem with gastric bypasses is after awhile they stop working. Many people gain back most, or all of the weight, some even more weight. I'm sure it wouldn't take the government much time, in the scheme of things, to be right back where it is right now, or worse. 😱 It would help out some of the older folks, as they might die off before it got back to this point.
One thing about a VAT is that if it is included in the price, it is very easy to implement and raise. If NOT included in the price, it tends to make the customers too angry when it exceeds 10% or so.
Canada vs. New Zealand is a good example. In the former it is not included in the price, while in the latter it is. Both started out at 7% and 10%, respectively, at around the same time. But the former cut it over time to 5% under public pressure, while the latter raised it over time to 15% while the people didn't seem to care enough to complain.
I don’t buy shit. I can’t after Turdeau has taken 1/3 of my paycheque so I’m frugal too. Now I’m freaking out about interest rates and will I be able to keep my shitty house that I actually would like to give my kids some day. Now I’m not so sure anymore.
So this is really boring but since you're talking about taxes, I have to throw in the way my community caret system does it (once we kick out the banks). The commonwealth issues all mortgages priced in carets, and distributes targeted dividends to all residents for locally produced food, wellcare, education and home improvements. Once other people earn the carets by doing nice things for each other, they can spend them how they like. If spent on local goods, housing or services, there's no income tax or sales tax, only soc sec, which is really a pension plan. If cashed out for dollars to buy foreign stuff, there's a 50% tax, protecting local producers. There's also a 2:1 exchange rate of dollars to carets so that local workers pay half what hedge funds or invading Californians would to buy or rent a house. So people can work where they live and live where they work. End of pitch.
You may have just squared the proverbial circle in breaking Gresham's Law (namely, "bad" money drives out "good", where "bad" = cheaper, dollars in this case).
Haha. Well since you're egging me on, let's look at the logic. The rule of thumb for rents or mortgages is that you have to show 3X that in income. So they will always be 33% of what anyone who wants the house makes. The lower the income, the higher the percentage. So that's a tax, a regressive tax, that goes to the richest people on the planet in exchange for money they've created out of nothing. They transfer it to their other hand as venture capitalists and get you to work for them for 30 yrs+++. Why not use that money instead of taxes to help each other, teach each other, heal each other, feed each other? Then we could defund the military and the oligarchs but keep all the good things we wish our taxes were doing.