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AL's avatar

Great piece. When we are talking about what is happening globally here and now, I have never subscribed to the idea that leaders have made (obvious) mistakes and are simply loathe to admit it. I've instead believed that there is a long-term agenda here that is to be achieved come hell or high water--so that "policy" mistakes, etc. aren't so much embarrassing as they are irrelevant: "Who cares if we we're wrong? We're not trying to gain respect or acceptance, we're just obliterating the process to implement the new world order. You can suck it."

I could be wrong, because in either case, those mea culpas don't come. But it just feels different now. Like they just don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of them.

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Guttermouth's avatar

To be clear, if you're right, and this really is ALL part of a destructive agenda, you're absolutely correct- there's no reason not to just give us the finger as they continue burning it down, and at that point it's either up to us to destroy them first or submit.

But I had intended this article to be explicitly non-topical- while I made some examples of COVID-19 policy, I was intending to speak more to an almost universal problem of leadership that I think is a problem of premodern systems of power proving incompatible with the challenges of modern leadership. What I wrote about I'm observing in systems in all corners of society, not just big, scary, Great Reset-type villains.

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John's avatar

Good thought provoking piece.

The qualifier of "effective, leadership" is what may deny the fruition of your dream. Or, until we as a people realize, and more importantly enforce, the understanding that we are the adults (not the talking heads populating various telescreens), and must be in charge (as well as realize when WE have made mistakes, and freely admit them).

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Guttermouth's avatar

Believe me, I'm not trying to suggest that the current scheme incentivizes auto-accountability. That qualifier does, indeed, stand in the way of my thesis.

My assertion is only that governance MUST adapt because the consequences of unaccountable leadership are deeper and lead, in the long term, to credibility crashes that didn't happen in ages of greater information asymmetry and shorter societal memory.

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Rikard's avatar

Ruddy great text! Are you sure you're not a sociology major? It sure sounds like sociology and behaviouristics paired with anthropology is where your instincts ring true (I've met people at uni who struggles to grasp what you sum up here, and I mean people who work with stuff like this).

I'd argue though that social credit is not sex/gender dependent at all, but is expressed differently, due to the hierarchy being different in male groups as compared to female groups (mixed in with age, class, culture etc).

I've noticed several times that all-female (practically so) groups tend to have the oldest become the natural leader. If not the oldest, then the most dominant. If no one is dominant then the most garrulous and spiteful. Of course, that's me talking as a former teacher in a work environment where 85%+ of the cadre is female, so the roles available for men aren't that many.

For men, it's the one who ranks highest given context: when hunting, Hunter Steve who is the typical pencil necked boffin and low on the rungs takes charge since he's been hunting for 50 years. When putting a drainage ditch in the right place, George the Hydro-Geologist is leader since it's his turf, but Burt who runs the ditch digger makes the calls when it comes to the machinery.

All of which makes a bad male leader obvious: it's either the bully with the peckerhead knowitall sidekick, or the sleazy pleaser (the worst kind in my very emotional opinion) trying to be equal and friendly and chummy with everyone and then just follows his own mind anyway, making a mockery of the whole thing.

And our social system is, due to what you describe re: culpability, responsibility and apologies self-selecting for those who will not or can not act the right way. Because those who can sort of removes themselves by the very act of contrition you talk about.

Gordium's knot was way easier.

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Guttermouth's avatar

>> I'd argue though that social credit is not sex/gender dependent at all, but is expressed differently,

I had hoped that was exactly what I'd expressed. I guess I didn't do as well as I thought.

Glad you liked it, otherwise!

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Rikard's avatar

Chalk it up to my sloppy reading instead. It is often forgotten (I'm most definitely no exception) that academic writing is a learned or trained style only, it does not carry specific meaning. Meaning that it is quite often easier to convey the same message or knowledge in plain language, the style being a social contextual marker (or discoursive marker to make an example out of it). Also, key in the social sciences and humanities is making up your own jargon and your own technical terms: look at the spread of "mass formation theory", talk about the thing creating itself - it is not new, neither is the hypothesis, only the term "mass formation psychosis" is. Mass hysteria is the older name for the same thing.

But I forget, you work with advertising, yes? Advertising is applied psychology and sociology, wouldn't you say?

PS: did a search for "chickens will fly", didn't find anything (dosn't mean much, many idioms are local and short lived so if not put into books they disappear). I'd understand it as "things/people will do what they must/can, even if difficult and with no hope of success", seeing as chickens are so poor at flying, yet they try. Which is why I have a roof over their outdoors area (well, that and raptors).

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Amking's avatar

Not to pick on fathermouth, since he's done no harm, but was he a mise-en-abyme, illustrating the very discussion of admission? That made me laugh out loud.

My ex used to use mixed metaphors: "Give it a wing, golden spooner, by any stretch of the means." He said that's how people said things in Whitefish. Drove me crazy.

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Guttermouth's avatar

LOL, it's impossible to say. Dad is not perfect at admitting when he's wrong unless you actually press the issue, but I think it's more misplaced certainty and confidence than actually knowing and doubling down. He's very respectful of the process of reasoned argument and has never doubled down in the face of facts, but his memory is far from perfect these days, so who the hell knows what he thinks he meant?

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Renee Marie's avatar

The true “problem”: E-G-O (the cause of nearly every problem in the world)

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Guttermouth's avatar

But probably one that will never be erased from human nature, so how do we work with its inevitability?

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Renee Marie's avatar

But, like most things in life, ego has positive aspects as well as negative aspects. If one is mature enough, open to change of self, and recognizing the negative aspect in oneself, it’s a very positive part of growth. And it’s HARD to let go of the proverbial bs. I used to get so angry at people wearing masks. I literally wanted to yell at them-lol! Now I just ignore them for my own peace. They have a right to suffocate themselves. Be in the world,not of it.” Peace

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Sathanas Juggernaut's avatar

Interesting the dynamics of how men and women project "power" and the advent of modern information technology. Social media, and the internet in general, seems almost perfectly tailored to destroy the minds of girls.

While we continue to produce ideological academics who pretend only masculinity can be "toxic" I suspect this will never be properly studied.

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Guttermouth's avatar

...I suspect the reality of the existence of "toxic femininity" is patently obvious to any woman who has survived navigating a female social space for an extended time. Most of us just aren't in the position to write papers on it. Or want to.

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Guttermouth's avatar

>> Social media, and the internet in general, seems almost perfectly tailored to destroy the minds of girls.

It is, and it does. Check out "Reclaiming Conversation" and the neurology of what social media does to developing adolescent female brains. It's a sociopath factory.

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MRPJB's avatar

Societal cost: "Eventually, the consequences of unaddressed errors compound, impunity leads to more errors, and the whole thing falls apart."

When a leader runs out of "social capital" or political capital there is nothing left in the tank and change must come. Or, that leader can fight like a cornered animal and systematically institutionalize authority well beyond benefits to society. It becomes all cost and no benefit.

Someone like PM Trudeau has rushed to his limit and got there faster than any Canadian PM in our history, and yet he remains in the PM Office, flawless in his own mind.

Disaster awaits.

Well, more and bigger disaster awaits.

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Guttermouth's avatar

I saw a video last night of Trudeau and his entourage ambushed by protesters on their way into what looked like Parliament.

It was a small crowd, evening, and no special occasion. But the crowd was UGLY. Nearly the entire audio was loud profanities yelled by numerous individuals. No signs, no show for the TV. It was dripping hate.

If it had been a dark alley and Trudeau wasn't surrounded by his everpresent huscle, I don't think he'd have walked out of it alive.

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MRPJB's avatar

I watched Trudeau at the well-staged presser the next day. He looked ragged and beaten and reluctant to perform. His Cabbies were lined up behind, nodding and teetering as no doubt they had been shaken by both the welcoming committee and the increasingly harsh polling results. Maybe they were all stoned. A little. Soothe the jagged nerves.

He can not admit error. And can not apologize for the harm his words and policies and conduct have done to his country and to his party loyalists. Party before country and Leader before Party. They are bereft of integrity. Bereft of even the pretence of noblesse oblige.

Good Guttermouth, what do you think? Is it not ridiculous, and stunning, that not one contender can be found in Cabinet, or even in the outer circles of Librano sharks, someone, anyone, with spine enough and ambition enough to tell him he has to go? From his own ranks the rank share his guilt and his worthless sense of pride-glory.

He will not be able to walk the streets. So no walk in the snow for the younger Trudeau like his daddy. This Trudeau will have to reconcile himself with his many failures as he studies his self-admired reflection in the mirror each morning. His nights must be a terror for his family.

https://tnc.news/2023/01/26/rhf-this-happened-to-justin-trudeau-again/

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Sathanas Juggernaut's avatar

There just seems to be a real deficit of leadership in the "West" and I'm not just talking about the US. The whole Ukranian situation seems to be entirely a Democrat project, with the Biden's firmly in the centre, but there's absolutely no push back. Republicans seem fully onboard, which looks to be a typical GOP "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" and, worse of all, nothing from Europe. We expect that from the UK (as America's stooge) but the lack of any political courage from France and Germany has been astonishing.

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Mary's avatar

Don't forget John McCain and Lindsey Graham have been very involved in Ukraine. I think we have a uniparty with good cop/ bad cop roles. Who is a good cop vs bad cop depends on your own party affiliation. At this point they are all corrupt and we aren't going to vote are way out of this. Also Matt Romney has a kid involved in Ukraine deals.

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May 4, 2022
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Guttermouth's avatar

Only most of you.

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May 3, 2022
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Guttermouth's avatar

One thing- chickens CAN fly. They get poor at it as they get fat, but some breeds are giant pains in the ass in this way. Mine can reach the roof of my shed if I don't clip their wings, and I've seen Asian heritage breeds that like to roost in tall trees.

They're just delicious dinosaurs, after all.

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Guttermouth's avatar

Brothermouth found out the Jamestown settlement was open today so we're doing that. It's the absolute bomb.

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Jim Marlowe's avatar

I suspect the Weroances did not apologize.

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Guttermouth's avatar

No. They did not.

But it didn't end up well for them regardless.

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